Background and Current Situation Erin is in Korea (11 PM), visiting family and meeting friends; Ryan is in SF at Google Ryan: gap year at Google, sitting next to Ashton in the same office Erin: doing single-cell computational immunology research remotely from Korea, unpaid, at a Brigham and Women’s lab Same lab as Andy Yang, who has since shifted interest to urology All research has been computational; learned single-cell sophomore year Medical School Path and Specialty Interests Erin got into PlMed (Brown’s BSMD program) as her only application; unsure if she’d have gone premed otherwise Family influence: father and grandfather are surgeons, grew up in Korea where medicine is heavily emphasized Leaning toward derm or diagnostic radiology; ruled out surgery due to lifestyle concerns Shadowed one dermatologist: found it pleasant, patients left with clear value Has not shadowed a radiologist yet; wants to before deciding Drawn to visual specialties; also considered pathology Radiology concern: AI displacement risk is real; only liability keeps it viable Prefers lifestyle specialties; interested in academic medicine over private practice Considered MD-PhD but ruled it out: doesn’t want 12 more years in Providence Research Background Wet lab in high school: quorum sensing, antibiotic resistance, Pseudomonas at a microbiology lab; also interned at Regeneron immunology division Transitioned to computational work for speed and flexibility College research: single-cell immunology, bladder cancer (urology lab), oncology interest drove lab choice, not urology itself Interested in continuing computational research as a physician; mentor (Andy’s urologist, an MD-PhD) runs his own lab and enjoys it Does not think an MD-PhD is required to run a lab Ryan’s Career Situation and Philosophy Took gap year after Google internship; must decide on med school return by October Considering Sahil’s path: ~80% chance of returning to med school after a year in industry Core philosophy: unconventional outcomes require unconventional bets; prioritizes scalability of impact and fast monetary growth Applied to YC, did the interview, didn’t get in; lesson: founding requires an extreme vertical edge, and medical school is one of the best ways to build that Currently networking heavily; weighing FTE roles in health AI vs. joining a friend’s seed-stage startup as founding engineer Health AI Landscape and Opportunities Open Evidence: verticalized medical AI, positioned to challenge Epic on EHR; actively wants candidates with medical backgrounds Voyo: frontier AI lab focused on radiology; founded by a former UCSF resident; Ryan’s friend was chief of staff PathAI: founded by a PlMed alum, acquired by a major biotech (likely Roche); CEO responded to Ryan’s outreach Chai Discovery: drug discovery AI; also values health care background over pure SWE pedigree Cognition (made Devin): top-tier talent, fast-growing; Ryan’s high school’s smartest person was among first 20 employees Anthropic: hiring clinical researchers heavily right now Common thread: these companies actively prefer candidates with medical/premed backgrounds over pure CS hires Forward Deployed Engineer (FTE) Roles Role split: ~30-70% or 70-30% between client-facing work (talking to health care companies or patients) and development work Does not require clinical credentials or residency; domain knowledge helps but isn’t mandatory Erin’s PlMed background + CS is rare and highly valued; Ryan argues she’s underselling herself Abdullah (PlMed alum): finished MD, interned at Google Health during med school, now at Google as clinical AI researcher Estimated TC: ~$600K; base ~$250-300K cash, rest in Google stock; likely L5 or L6 VC path note: MDs who do EM residency often transition to VC because they know clinical workflows best Erin’s Interest and Potential Next Steps Open to trying an FTE or health AI role for a year during a potential gap year PlMed holds spots for two years, reducing risk of trying something non-traditional Would not recruit for a standard SWE role; health AI FTE is the specific interest Has never been involved in a startup or company outside research Ryan offered to refer her to roles at Cognition, Open Evidence, and other vetted companies Abdullah flagged as a good person to contact about the MD-then-industry path Next Steps Refer Erin to health AI FTE roles at vetted companies (Ryan) Target Cognition, Open Evidence, and similar; vet quality before referring. Introduce Erin to Abdullah (Ryan) His MD-then-Google-Health path is directly relevant to Erin's situation. Share Ryan's number with Erin for faster follow-up (Ryan) Dropped in chat so she can text directly. Decide on med school return by October (Ryan) Meeting with Dean Jang already done; need to finalize direction before communicating back.
Hey, Ryan.
Hi. How's it going?
¿Qué les voy a ir?
Pretty good. Pretty good. Wait. Where are you right now?
I'm in Korea, actually.
Oh, shoot. Wait. What time is it over there?
It's, like, eleven.
Oh, shoot.
It's actually better for you than, like, in the morning. So
Are you sure? Okay. You're not too tired.
yeah. No. No. No. It's fine.
Okay.
Where are you?
I'm in San Francisco.
Oh, cool. Wait. Where you at? Google?
Yeah. Yeah. I'm Yeah. Yeah. I'm at Google right now.
Okay. Nice. Are you, like, there are you working, like, full time?
Yeah. Yeah. I'm taking a gap semest or gap year.
Am I are you coming back? Okay. Nice.
Yeah.
I heard it's, like,
Cool.
well, Ashton is also at Google.
Uh-huh.
I think he said he's in different office. Right?
No, no, no, No. No. No. Actually, we're in the same exact office, and, like, we
But, like, in the same oh, really?
we're we're gonna sit, like, right next to each other, which is really funny. So we, like, see each other every single day.
That is so fun.
Yeah.
That's so fun.
How's Korea? I was just on a
One is who Yeah.
just, like, summer vacation or visiting family?
Yeah. Well, I'm, like, kinda continuing to do the research I've been doing, like, remotely, but it's mostly been, like, really chill.
Okay.
And I don't really get paid for it either. So no one's, like, pressuring me to work.
Yeah. Wait. What kind of research is it?
It's like well, I do a lot of, like, single cell research.
Okay.
I'm actually the same mob as Andy, like, Andy Yang.
Oh, Oh, holds je name? Yingma.
No. He, like, used to work there, but now he's, like, at well, I think he's interested in, like, urology. And
Okay.
yeah, I work at, like, a lab at Brigham Women's.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Got you. Oh, so that's in Boston. Right?
Ja, ja.
Oh, okay. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So are you, like, interested? Is that, like, more computational work?
Yeah.
I'm assuming. Okay.
It's, like, entirely computational.
Oh, okay. Okay. Interesting. So what kind of work did you, like, wanna do in terms of, like, using your CS? And, like, the MD part?
I think I mostly just did it. Like, I started it because I wanted to do, like, computational research. Like, I did a lot of, like, wet lab in high school, and I it's
Yep.
interned at, like, a farm company my freshman summer. And I enjoyed a lot, but I feel like I kind of just want to work from home and stuff.
Yeah.
I think mostly what I'm doing CS is, like,
Okay.
to do computational research. I don't really plan on being a or, like, working.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So
Interesting. So you're more into, like, CS research.
yeah, we're like
Right? Data science, just like Andy.
data science. Yeah.
Right?
Yeah. Kind of yeah. I'm basically, like, the same thing as Andy.
Okay.
We're, like, the same phasers too.
Okay. Got you. Got you. And start this in high school, like, CS or not really?
I did start CS in high school, but it was more like well, I, like, kind of learned how to make an app. Like, I didn't really do, like, data science. I learned that, like,
Okay.
here at Brown.
Interesting. Okay.
Well, more like single cell, I learned. Like, sophomore year.
Sophomore year. Okay. College. Okay. Got you. Got you. Interesting. So I guess, like, why did you wanna do CS? Instead of, like, continuing, like, web lab? You just wanna work at home, or was there, like, other reasons to it?
I thought it was, like, interesting I I think I was just more intrigued by it initially because I could work from home, like, to be honest.
Okay. Got you.
Because I worked at a micromyology lab in high school, and then, like, like, the immuno division of Regeneron, and it was, like, a lot of, like,
Okay.
a lot of, like, grunt work in the lab. So
Yep.
yeah. And I just found it, like, more satisfying to, like,
Yeah.
because things move along pretty quickly. Compared to, like, what lab works. So
Interesting. But what kind of microbiome research did you do? Because I also did microbial research in high school.
Oh, really? It was like quorum sensing.
Yeah. Oh, form sensing. Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Got you. Like, what kind of like, what part of it?
It was like it's been, like, a couple years, but it's like for antibiotic resistance, I think it was looking at, like, different resistant bacteria and, like, especially Pseudomonas.
Okay.
And, yeah, I didn't really get anything out of it. I think was more just, like, learning how to work in the wet lab.
Okay. Okay. And you didn't like pipetting? You didn't actually like going to the
I I did like the pipetting. I thought it was, like,
like, doing
I thought it was kinda therapeutic, actually, to just, like, play that and work.
Ajá. Yeah.
But
Ya, ya,
it was just very slow.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I feel like when I was in high school, you do, like, those, like, science fair competitions by each?
Idea, ja.
Okay. It's interesting because, like, when I was in high school, like, all the people that did computational work, they can get results super fast.
Yeah.
And so, like, it was kind of advantageous to do computational work. Versus, like, web lab. Have to go there, like, every single day.
Did you start competition in high school?
So not
Or no?
not really. I guess I kind of did because of because of COVID. I was kinda forced to do computational work.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
But I think that's kind of what made me transition into doing more CSE kind of stuff. I I was I was huge on Wet Lab just because, like, my dad was researcher at UCSD, but then
Oh, cool. Yeah.
was like, oh, I think computation is a lot faster. It's a lot scalable.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's why it switched. Did you always wanna become a doctor as a kid?
Okay. Well, my dad is a surgeon,
Okay.
so I think I, like, grew up with, like, some medical influence.
Yeah.
And my grandpa is also surgeon.
Okay.
So I think they were like, oh, you should, like, consider going to med school. And I I like, pleading was the only BSMD program I applied to, and I didn't really intend on well, I I didn't know I was gonna get in.
Yeah.
So don't really know if I would have been premed if I were to go to a different school. Like,
Yeah. Same.
so I'm really glad I got into play me, and I think it's been a very enriching experience. But yeah. I don't know. But I think I do, like, the mission of being a doctor, and it's I think it's one of the only professions where you like, actually be of help to people in society while, like, being paid well. So
That's true. That's true. So I guess, like, that's the two components that you're like, interested in in terms of being a doctor, like, that impact on people and also, like, I guess, having getting the money, obviously, is, like, very important as well.
I think so.
Okay. Interesting. And is that something you were, like, interested as a kid because if that's, like, the only SMD you apply to, and then you're like,
Also,
oh, I guess, like, that's, like, a easy premade path, I guess. Or not easy, but, like, a guaranteed path.
Yeah. I think, like because I'm I'm actually I grew up in
Oh, really? Okay.
Korea, and I think it's like yeah. It's very well, I don't know if you, like, watch those k dramas, but a lot of Koreans, like, really try to get their kids to med school.
Okay. Yeah. It's a very agent thing. Yeah.
And so
Mean, we're trying the same way.
yeah, I think a lot of, like, the people around me are also, like, very interested in medicine.
Yeah.
And because, like, I didn't really have a particular, like, specialty in mind when I, like, applied.
Okay.
But I think I just generally wanted to be a doctor because of that. Like, because if I were to go into, like, finance or law, like, I was, like, considering law school for a while as well.
Really?
Like, in high school.
Okay.
I never really considered finance, but, like, you know how, like, are, like, kind of the three main tops, like, people go into in college?
Sí.
I think out of the three, I was, like, most intrigued by medicine.
Okay.
Yeah. But and I also like the science part of it. I didn't like the wet log part to be exact, but I did, like, doing research
Mhmm.
I just wanted to be faster. So guess I'm glad I, like, continued CS in college and
Yeah.
yeah. I think it's I think that's also why I, like, consider MD PhD.
Ok,
Because they, like,
Okay.
yeah. Well, I considered it. I don't think I'm gonna do it.
Okay.
But I wanted to research
Interesting. Oh, so you're not gonna apply to the program.
Yeah. I think you have to apply, like, in the fall or something.
Okay.
If you wanted to do it here.
Got you.
But I definitely would have done it if it were, like, at a different city. I just don't wanna be in Providence. Like,
Yeah. Got you.
twelve years.
Okay. Okay. That makes sense.
Yeah. So I think it was, a combination of reasons.
Yeah. Definitely. So I guess in high and growing up, you're more of, like, a generalist. In terms of, like, you weren't sure what to do. And then getting into cleaning kinda solidified that path for you.
Yeah. I think so.
Okay. Interesting. Interesting.
I'm actually like, I didn't really shadow in high school either.
Okay. So you
Yeah.
Okay. So you did mostly, like, web research?
Yeah. It was mostly I think I got in for research.
Oh,
I'm guessing. Because I was also surprised that, like, a lot of did a lot of, like, premed, like,
Yeah. I do that right there.
HOSA or whatever. But, like, my school didn't
Yeah. I don't feel that, Heather.
have that, and I didn't really do that either.
Yeah.
So I think it was mostly, like, science fair and just I was, like, pretty involved at my school.
Okay.
And I did a lot of, like, bioresearch stuff at my school too. So
Interesting.
I'm guessing that's why.
Yeah. And I guess, like, in college, you also did, like, hack at Brown. Right?
Yeah.
I feel like that's not really tangential to med. Was there a reason why you wanted to do that?
Actually got into it because Olivia, who is, like, the previous Cody,
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
she was, my engineering TI, and she was, we should consider
Oh, really? Okay.
flying because I was the only freshman in the class. I was, like, taking it with, like, the west ley squad.
Oh, we Oh, was that the engineering? No way.
During Yeah. Because I was considering b or biomedical engineering as my concentration at the time. And, like, engine 32 was required.
Oh, Okay. Okay. Oh, he took 32. Took 32. Okay. Okay.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Was it your sophomore year when you took it?
Actually, a freshman year.
Oh, year?
Was, like, I heard it got
I think it, like,
harder from my understanding. Oh, okay.
I think they got rid of it or something. I think it's, like, engine 30 now.
Okay. Okay. Got you.
Yeah. But she was like, yeah. You should join her team. I just applied and yeah.
Okay.
I just, like, stuck with it, and that's kind of been the only club I've been part of. So yeah.
And then you became the the copresident. With Ashton. Okay. That's awesome.
Because I I I did, like, Hagib Brown, like, Fashionate Brown, I did, like, the Herald's Brown Daily Herald like, the sales team. But, like, my main involvement has been Hocket Brown, and
Yep.
it's been pretty fun. Like, it's, like, very unrelated to like, the single cell reusage that I do, obviously, but it's, like,
Yeah.
I like the people a lot. So
Okay. Okay. So something that you joined early on and you stuck with it.
Yeah.
That makes sense. Interesting.
Wait. What have you heard of?
Wait. So you're also part of Wait. What?
On campus? Like, what clubs is easier?
What clubs do I do? That's a good question. I was part of a full stack. For, like, a year,
Oh, yeah.
then, like, I don't know. I feel like it doesn't really help doesn't really, like,
I've heard.
didn't really give much value to me. Like, it's not it's, like, unpaid and, like,
Yeah.
a free volunteer to do, like, grunt work.
I think it's like a resume planning thing. I've
Yeah. But, like, I even put on my resume. And, like, it just didn't really end up as that much anyway.
Yeah.
I think it was a good way to, like, get to know some seniors or some older people Other than that,
Okay. I think that's that's also, like, why I did it because, like, I was, like, new to the Siesta program as a freshman, and I
Yeah.
wanted to, like, know more people.
Definitely. Interest
Yeah. And I was taking CS 15, and I think one of my TAs was, like, yeah. He was the co director that year. Eamon, like, I know if you
I think I know Alexis Fry. I don't know Avan.
Aiman Alexis Fry. He, like, works at
But okay.
He, like, works at Duolingo or something.
Oh, okay.
But he was, like, super nice.
I think I think I know what you're talking about.
He was, like, bud CA for Tom. Like, I think he TA'd every Tom class.
Interest
He was, like, a 33 TA, like,
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Everything. But yeah.
Wait. Was there a reason why you never considered, like, the industry?
I just never really bothered, like, recruiting.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Like, I know. Like, there are some please, you, like, somehow like, do consulting or, like,
Yep.
like, try other jobs, which I think is admirable, but I just, like, was too lazy to apply. Or, like, interview for that. Yeah.
Interesting. Like, what do you wanna try?
I don't think it would be
Yeah.
I don't think they would be, like, that interested. Like, I just don't really find me in
Okay. Okay.
in consulting. Okay. Like, I I think I would consider being a suite more than, like, being consultant.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, did know Ananye,
And not what's the last name?
I'm gonna butcher it. Let me let me see.
Is she
It's like
Ich gehe sofort
yeah. I think she's one year younger. So you
Ok.
probably don't know. But I think she's, like, incoming McKinsey. So
Oh, cool.
she's interest Yeah.
I think she might, like, well, I know Henry did, a health care consulting thing,
Oh, yeah. I like
Henry Wang, in your year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
ClearView, I or something. Okay.
I don't think I've ever heard of, like, a McKinsey person before, so it's cool.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I know some people, like, work at Goldman for, like, a year and then come back to med school.
Oh, okay.
But it was, like,
Yeah.
very it was, like, five years ago or something. Like, yeah.
Yeah.
I've just heard some people did that.
Because I remember also, like, a year ago, you also messaged messaged me about, like, the Google, like, research program.
Ya,
Like, are you interested in, like, the research aspects? Like, not Sweet.
Yeah. I
But, like, the research roles.
at Google? Maybe.
In general, like, In general, like, in the in the industry.
Like, in yeah. Like, maybe. I know there's, like, I think there were some mud students. Like, I was just, looking around LinkedIn, and there were, like, some people working at, like, some, like, health AI at, like, NVIDIA or something like that. And I think that could be cool.
Okay. Yeah.
I also, like, don't know how that would work out timeline was for me. And I think my parents want me to just
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
go, like, straight through if possible. And that was, like, mostly why I, like, gave up on the MDPG path. Like, I think they want me to be done with school as quick as possible.
Oh, really? Oh, okay. Interesting.
Well, because we live in Korea.
I thought most agent parents wanted to do that. Oh, sorry?
They live in Korea.
Oh, both of your parents live in Korea?
Yeah.
Oh, okay. Okay. So they want you to, like, move back. Is that what it is?
No. But, like, I think they well, I think we're gonna, like, move to New York
Okay.
after or they're gonna move to New York. My, like, my cousin currently lives in New York, so
Okay.
yeah, that's, like, my permanent address. I but my family, like, lives in or lives in Korea.
Okay.
So I'm, like, half an international student, but I was born in Seattle. So I'm, a US citizen. Yeah.
Okay. Awesome. Interesting. Wait. So your parents wanna move to Korea or move to New York after like, you graduate, basically?
I think so. At least for now.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Wait. Are you, like, considering, like, not going to residency or
Gracias.
something? Like, are you, like, considering different, like, career paths?
That's a hard question, though, because, like, I think it depends. Right now, what I'm thinking about is that with Google, don't wanna be a free forever. So I'm probably gonna quit, like, I'm I'm planning, like, exit strategies right now. Have, like, different options, but I think the path to MD I'm kind of uncertain. I have to decide by October. But yeah, I know. I think that this
You have to decide by October whether you're gonna, like,
yeah. But, obviously, it can take another year.
go to med school. Yeah.
But that also, like, makes it so that I don't wanna I don't wanna take another year off and then, like, do nothing. Right? So we'll see. I think I could still go back. There's still a chance. But I'm still planning, like, what to do. Kind of thing.
I think it could be cool if you like work in a research role.
Yeah.
Like, I think I would personally be more drawn to that over, like, being a swing.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Wait. What, like, specialty would you do if you, like, were to
Powderm, I think.
come back?
Yeah. I do a lot of, like, derm research. So I think it just makes sense.
Wait. Were you, like, doing ortho? With Andy?
Not re I did I did stuff with Andy for, like, two months. Then I did, like, sweet recruiting, so I just, like, didn't do any work with them after. But
I think I I'm also interested in derm.
Oh, really? Okay.
And yeah, I think I was, like, I was either, like, derm or diagnostic radiology, but I think I'm leaning more towards derm. But I'm like,
Okay.
I still, like, don't really know. I think I have to, like,
Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I think we're,
wait and shadow more people.
pretty similar because I was also thinking dermoradiology.
Oh, really?
I think it just makes a lot of sense with, like, the CS background.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Wait. Why are you thinking Derm instead of, like, surgery? Because you said that your father and then your grandfather is, like, so
I don't like surgery.
you like surgery?
Like, the lifestyle.
Okay.
Think my like, I think lifestyle is, like, the number one factor for my decision.
Lifestyle, like, as in, like, worth like finance?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. I mean, I guess derm and radiology has, like, really good worth like balance. I mean
Yeah. I think like, I feel like surgeons in Korea are pretty chill, but, like, just the residents
Yes.
process and I don't like, I've actually never shouted a surgeon.
Okay.
I've never even shadowed my dad. So I feel like I wouldn't really know. But based on, like, what I've been hearing, I think I wanna go into a lifestyle specialty for now.
Okay.
Yeah. And I think I'm, like, a very like, visual person.
Yeah.
I think that's why I was, like, more drawn to like, the two most visual oriented specialties. And I was, like, thinking of pathology as well.
Yeah.
But I don't know.
Okay. So all of the imaging things, basically. Or, I guess, derma's not really imaging.
Yeah. Yeah. Which, like, yeah. Maybe, like, it's a little, like, the most unstable picks. But
I think Bermuda is here all the way. I don't know about radiology. I was talking to, I think Anonia actually heard her mom is radiologist. And she was telling me how, like, her mom doesn't want her to go to radiology.
Really? But
Yeah. Yeah.
Really? That's scary.
Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like the only thing, like, stopping radiology from not like, disappearing is, like, the liability part.
Yeah. Hold on.
But I yeah. I just feel like that could happen anytime, which is also one of the factors I was leaning more towards
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I guess, like, for MDs, like, do you care about, like, I guess, like, what's drawing you to MD versus, like, Swee? Right? Because, like, Swee has the money and the lifestyle in terms of, like, the work life balance and the money. Right? Yeah. Like, going
What's driving me to the MD? I think it's more like
going to medical school.
I think it's more like just having more passionate about what I do. Like, I feel like the work that Squeeze do
Okay.
like, not to, like,
No. You're good. I'm I'm I'm gonna quit in, like, a couple months. So
kind of yeah. I I just feel like it's so like, you just, like, implement a feature on, like,
yeah.
TikTok or whatever.
Okay.
Which, like, doesn't feel too fulfilling for me.
Sure.
I think, like, I wanna spend my life doing something a little more like, impactful.
Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Yeah.
Interesting. Okay. And how about, like, companies, like, have you heard of Open Evidence? Okay. I guess they're, like,
No.
the leading AI for I guess, like, answering any medical questions So think of, like, ChatGPT, but it's like very verticalized into health care.
Yeah.
They do they're, like, the closest to basically replacing Epic because Epic has been, like, here for, like, years. They're more of an e... EHR system, but I think people are saying that Open Evidence is gonna replace them because, like, they can they have all the information from medical papers, they can query things really, really fast. Faster than Epic.
Veo de
Like, Yeah. So I guess, like, what's drawing you from, like, going to the medical path versus joining, like, these health companies? Because there's a lot of them.
I don't think joining, like, Epic or, like, an EHR system would fulfill me too much. Like, I I think I wanna, like,
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you don't have a good idea.
help the people Like, I I wanna be more directly helpful to the patients than, like,
Yeah.
in an intermediary, like, like, system role.
Yeah.
I know there's some plaintiffs who are, like, more drawn to, like, the health care leadership side.
Yeah.
I think I would personally wanna do something that's a little more, like, like, directly working with the patients.
Okay.
And I know, like, radiology isn't direct, but I feel like the impact is direct. Like, you know, you're, like,
Yeah. Yeah.
actually helping them. And I'm not, like, a super, like, extroverted person.
Yeah. I mean, you yeah.
So yeah, I feel like I would, like, lean towards, like,
Mhmm.
maybe, like, academic like, in the future, just, like, any specialty.
Okay. Okay. Interest
Over, like, private practice.
Yeah. Definitely. Interesting. Have you, like, shadowed doctors in, like, radiology or derm?
I've shadowed a a dermatologist once.
Oh, okay.
And not radiology.
How was that?
I think it was it was okay. Like, that was, like, my very first shadowing experience.
Yeah.
So, like, kinda didn't know what to make of it. But, like, I think the doctor that I shadowed was very social.
Uh-huh.
And he, like, does a lot of talking. And I feel like I was, like, slightly overwhelmed because of just how social he was.
Sure.
But, like, overall, it was, like, a very pleasant, like, every, like, interaction was very pleasant, and it felt like the patients were walking away with, like, like, they gained something from the visit, which was, like,
Yeah.
nice, and I think I would like that. I haven't shadowed a radiologist before, so I think they need to. Like, I I think they definitely wanna see, like, what their day to day is like because I've heard they just, like, sit there and, like,
Yeah. Yeah.
dictate.
From whatever, they also just, like, or I guess, like, it's it's a it's like a one what's it? It's a it's a case study because, like,
Yeah.
I only know one. But I think she, like, stays at home, like, half the week. She also helps AI companies annotate, like,
Oh,
slides radiology. So I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. But
like, I think that's I think that's good. Like, I I think I would, like, kind of, like, a part time lifestyle as well if I were to go into radiology.
Yep.
Like, I don't think I wanna, like, just sit there the entire time, like, dictating.
Uh-huh.
I think I would do, like, half clinical work and, like, half like, moonlighting.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
But I think for derm, it's, like, kinda different. I think I would
Yeah.
just wanna see patients
And I guess, like,
Yeah. So I think it, like, depends on what I wanna go into.
yeah.
Eventually.
For sure. And, also, did you wanna do research eventually? Like, while you're practicing?
I was, like, considering it because, actually, Andy and my mentor, he's a urologist, and he
Yeah.
well, he's an MDPhD, and he, like, has his own love and stuff. And he says he really enjoyed it, So I think I would consider it, especially because I wanna be, like, the Naka
Okay. I don't... Do you need a MDPhD
I don't think so.
Okay, that's what I thought.
I think a lot of them are, but I don't think you
Okay. Yeah.
necessarily, like, need one soap in a lab.
Yeah. Okay. Is Andy thinking that too? Like, he wants to do research.
I don't think so.
Okay. Okay.
I also haven't spoken to him in a while. The last time I did was, like, May when Matthew was graduating because all three of us, like, Internet Regeneron.
Okay. Sure.
So we've been doing, like, a little, like, catch up dinner every, like, semester.
Oh, that's fine.
But I think he said the last thing I heard was, like, he wants to go into urology. I think he's most interested in that, and I think he's
Interesting.
in New York this summer, like, doing urology research or something.
Dang. He did he did a whole switch because I remember he was really into ortho.
That's
But
That's that's what I thought in the fall or something. Like, he definitely made a switch.
yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think his girlfriend is like,
Interesting.
set on some specialty that I kinda forget. And he was like he I think he's, like, interested in, like, going back to the Midwest.
Alright. Oh, his girlfriend's also a man.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She
I had no idea. Really?
think she's in your year. Like, she took a gap year.
Okay.
But
Interesting.
goes to, like, the school at wherever he's from. Like, the state he's from.
Pues muy Know where he's from. Shit. Okay. Okay.
Yeah. I forgot to. But yeah, it's like it's somewhere in the Midwest.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Cool. Mean, it's very interesting. And wait. You you also did a lot of research, like, in college. Right? It also like, in neurology with the lab that you're you're with right now, or is it, like, a different kind of research?
Well, it's all I've been doing, like,
Okay.
kind of immunology research. The department that I worked in at Regeneron was immunology.
Okay. Okay. Got you.
And that was, like, wet lab.
Yeah.
And I worked at a different lab, last summer, and that was also computational.
Yeah.
And that was, like, immunology as well.
Okay.
But it was also, like, single cell. So I learned single cell there and then kind of transferred it to the lab that
Yeah. Definitely.
Andy and I are in.
Interesting. Okay. And then
Because I was also interested in, like, oncology.
Yep.
For a while.
Yeah.
And I was just looking generally and found a lab that does, like, bladder cancer work, which is
Oh, okay.
urology lab. So I don't think I'm, like, actually interested in urology. I just, like, did it because I was interested in, like, the oncology aspect.
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. I guess as a doctor, did you wanna do more computational research?
Yeah. I think so.
Is that why you're doing this test? Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Got you.
Could
That makes sense.
Because I think it's very like, I I
Yeah. I think so too.
think the wet lab part is just very tedious.
Yeah. I think so too. I don't think I'm ever gonna go back to WebLab.
Yeah. It's
Like, ever.
Yeah. Definitely not. Like, I have such respect for those wet love warriors. Like, I don't know how they do it.
Yeah. Totally. I know. I remember in high school, I would go there, like, every single day, and it's just like it's a huge time crunch. Or not time crunch, but, like, time in terms of, like, invest so much time You have to be there in person, and it's just like
Yeah.
lot of work. So yeah.
Are you also interested in doing research? Like, if you decide to be a physician,
Yeah. I guess, like, for my background, I leaned in heavily in CS in college. Like, I guess in high school, I was doing a lot of wet lab. So I did a lot of, like, microbiome research.
Yeah.
Less of, like, the core sensing part. And then, I guess, like, going into college, I do you know Lauren Crawford? He left already.
I think I've heard of him.
Brown. Okay. Okay. But he was like he had a partnership with, like, MSR, like Microsoft Research.
Ja.
And he was focused a lot on, like, I guess, three d modeling of, like, biological shapes. So that got me into, like, computer graphics, computer vision, also did some pathology research with them. And then after that, I also joined a peer CS lab focused on, like, computer vision, computer graphics only. So that was pretty interesting. I think that's why I'm probably leaning towards, like, I were to do research as a, like, a medical student or, like, a doctor, would probably do, like, imaging data or imaging analysis, I think.
Yeah.
But yeah. Yeah.
That, like, fits derm and Doctor, like, perfectly.
Yeah. Totally.
Wait. So why not just, like,
Or or
are you still working at Microsoft? Yeah.
Or or Lauren, like my professor. Yeah. Or he actually quit his role at Brown to do Microsoft Hold
Oh, okay.
time. Yeah.
So would you, like, wanna be, like like, him? Like, if you were to, like, do something like that all.
Yeah. I mean, like, the issue is that you have to be a PhD, and you have to be a professor. And he has a very, like, special role. That it's like you have to be kind of lucky, but also kind of, like, in the right rooms, know the right people. Kind of thing to get a partnership with Brown or, like, a university and the industry. So like, I only know, like, three professors at Brown doing that, I think. It's very, very unique.
Have you swollen to Sahil?
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah. I literally talked to him yesterday. Like, we really talked to him Yeah.
What did you say?
His I think his I don't wanna, like, misrepresent him, but
Okay.
think his thinking is, like, very similar to mine. Like, he wants to stay at Google for or the industry for, like, a year or something, and then he said he has, like, a 80% chance of, like, returning.
Okay.
To medical school. But I know. I think
Wait. Is he like, I so did you guys, like, like your internship last summer? And then that's why you decided to do a full year of, like, full time.
Yeah. I guess, like, my goals in like, long term is, like, scalability. And, like, how fast can I I guess, scalability can mean multiple things? I think that the first thing is, like, scalability of impact. Which means, like, how fast or how quickly can I impact as many people as possible?
Yeah.
The other thing is, like, scalability in terms of, like, I'm also a huge person. Like, who wants to grow monetarily as fast as possible. And, like, obviously, doctor is a long path. So the other thought process was, like, I can get money faster. And scale that way. Think Saw Hill is pretty similar. Like, we're both thinking that, like, doctor is a long path, but then can earn it faster. The only caveat is that it's less stable
Yeah.
And, I guess, like, as you said, the it's not as fulfilling, I think, is the issue.
Yeah. I think my friends already well, my friends are
So
sweet, and I think he's, like, thinking of, like, doing something else in addition to his job.
Yeah.
Like, I think he's still moonlight. And he I don't think he was very excited. So
Interesting.
yeah.
Wait. Who is this?
Alex?
Alex Oh, Apple. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's like Ashen's friend. Yes. Yeah.
Can I see something else? Okay. Interesting.
Well, like, I think it's, like, he's very, like, unserious.
Yeah.
So it might have been a joke. But
Okay.
yeah, we were just talking about, like, yeah, like, it's not, like, the most fulfilling thing ever.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually talked to him, like, two weeks ago. He just started his Apple job. Last month, I think. Yeah. That's funny because I was also Apple, and were there at the same time. So it's kinda interesting.
Wait. What so you were at Google last summer, and you were at Apple this summer?
Yeah. I'm kind of, like, hopping around because, like, why not? Just trying different things. Sahoz is doing
We have to line up to stay at Apple.
Okay. I I don't wanna put a shade on Apple, but, like, I'm sorry, Alex. It's just not the best place to work at in terms of money and the perks, and, like, think Apple is kind of slow. In terms of a company compared to other companies. So I just didn't wanna stay.
That makes sense. Where's style working?
Google?
Like, which, like, location?
Oh, New York.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Is he brown there?
He's from Virginia, I think.
No. He's like Okay.
Yeah. But Santa is also, like, hopping around. Like, I know he he's hopping around a lot more than me. He took a he graduated early to work at Palantir, and then he went to Microsoft.
Oh, he was at Palm here?
Yeah. I mean, it's all LinkedIn too.
Interesting. Okay.
So he he was a talent here, and then he jumped to Microsoft, and then now he's at Google.
Ja, Okay. And
Like, have you ever thought Have you ever thought about, like, trying something out? Because it's not like kind of unserious, to be honest.
Yeah. I guess so. Like, mean, if I wanted to, I could recruit, like,
Yeah. Okay.
senior year and, like, do something.
You never
But I was like, I really thought of it. Yeah. I mean, like, Alex and Ashton and I would talk about, like,
Never thought about it?
career options, and I feel like I always
Alright. Okay.
stayed like, I always just, like, said, yeah. I'm just going to med school.
Uh-huh.
Yeah. It was so unserious to the point. I was like, Alex, you should do premed.
Okay.
Yeah. So I just, like, never thought of it.
Yeah. I guess, like, the the reason why I ask is also because I also know people in the medical industry. Like, reason why I mentioned open evidence is because I know people in open evidence, and also know people in, like there's also other companies that, like, started, which is kind of interesting. Like, there's a company called Voyo. They're a frontier AI lab that focuses on radiology. My friend is the chief of staff at that company.
Oh,
So or he was the chief of staff.
is he a prayer?
So he knows the company. Yeah. It's funny. It's a very funny story. He basically got into flee me and
Ya.
other schools like MIT or whatever, and then he chose Berkeley. For some reason. I was like, oh, okay. He got a he got a full ride. He
Cali. Yeah. I mean, if it's a pull, right,
where is he from again? I think he's from where is he from? Probably, like, SoCal or something. And then he chose Berkeley and it actually worked out really well for him. And I met him because he was a Google intern. And then I was just talking to him, and he told me about how he's, like, the chief of staff of FOIA And the founder of Voyo is also So I thought that was kind of interesting.
Wait. Like, did the founder go to residency? Like, is he a do you graduate med school?
Yeah. Yeah. She's I think she has a part or she was at UCSF, I think, was what it was. And then I can send you the link and everything. You can check it out. Just gonna chat. It's called Voyah. But I think she was a resident she was practicing at UCSF. Then she started this company. I thought was pretty interesting. Like, I'm happy to connect with, like, these people as well. If you're interested.
Ja. Oh, wow. So she's a professor there.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Like, these are, the kind of exit strategies I'm currently thinking about. Because, like, I feel like these are more interesting in terms of, like,
Ja,
using a CS background in medicine.
What's Joe? Wait. I think that's also a thing about radiology. Like, the reason why I was
Yeah.
like, radiology in the first place was, like, you could moonlight if you wanted to.
Sure. Yeah.
But, like, I feel like for derm, it's, like, kind of not well, I guess it could be an option. Like, it just, like, doesn't offer, like, as much of flexibility.
Yeah. Totally.
Because I guess, like,
I I guess the radiology and pathology are just huge on imaging. So
Yeah.
It's interesting, though, because, like, there's also other companies founded by Clemens. I actually messaged the CEO of nobody got acquired, but Path AI, he actually responded too, which is, like, really cool.
Oh, wow. Wait. Oh my god. Like, that's huge.
Yeah. Pathia, he's was also preemie. And he got acquired by, like, a huge biotech company. I think it was, like, Roche. Or one of one of the really big like, biotechs. So he already got acquired. But yeah, I know him too.
This is found a bit of plumbing. Like, knew it was in Boston. That's cool.
Yeah. So there's actually a lot of pleimi presence that people don't really talk about, which is kind of interesting.
Interesting. Yeah. Wait. So what would you like, would you wanna, like, start something? Like, what would your role be if you were to, like, pursue this route?
Yeah. I mean, there's actually a lot of paths. Like, I wouldn't start something right now because I think it's kind of risky. Especially if I have a one year timeline. And, like, a deadline by October. I feel like starting something would require, like, more time.
Yeah.
And it's, a risk I have to take. But if I join one of these companies, it's a different story. But, also, did did you know that a lot of these AI companies are also heavily leaning towards, like, health care right now? Like, Anthropic was hiring a bunch of, like, clinical researchers.
My friend sent me real
So is Oh, really?
about that.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, like, becoming a huge thing.
Yeah.
And there's also a lot of there's, rules. Like, do you know what FTEs are?
Like the ones that pawns here.
Yeah. I guess pointer kind of coined the term.
Yeah.
But it's becoming a really commonplace like, role among, like, a bunch of different companies. Do you know what they do exactly?
Not really.
Or not really? Okay. So I guess, like, the role
Like, for deployment engineer?
yeah. The role is, like, split either thirty seventy or seventy thirty. Like, so there's two components. The first component is, like, the client side,
Ya,
where you actually talk to people,
Ya.
So that involves Palantir, that's, like, the the mission whatever or, like, the the rocket companies, the whatever, like, government based companies they're looking at, they would put an engineer in there and talk to the people then the other half or the other either 30 or 70% will be, like, development work. So that's kind of the role that I was also thinking about. Because there's also FTEs in, like, health care. Like, do you know cognition by any chance?
Have you heard of it?
Okay. They're they made Devin. Is, like, the AI software engineer. But because, like, a lot of these companies are also leaning towards, like, health care,
Yeah.
there's also a lot of FTEs for health care. Which means, like, talking client side to patients or, like, health care companies. And then doing development work.
Interesting. So Interesting. So would you well, I think that would require residency. You know?
No. It doesn't. No. It doesn't. Because, like, you just have to talk to people. Like, you don't have to have extreme domain expertise. In terms of, like, radiology or, like,
Okay.
dermatology. Like, there's no domain expertise It's mainly, like, client facing, talking to people, talking to to these health care companies, and then doing a lot of integrational work.
Because, well, I guess, like, a lot of the VCs in, like, well, the MVC, like, transitions to being, like, venture capitalists are usually, like, I'm
Yep.
people or people who did I'm residency mostly because they, like,
Really? Uh-huh.
know the clinical workflow the best. I think it's usually I'm or EM.
Okay.
Because EM is very, like, shift based work, and I think yeah. I think a lot of them actually practice EM And, like, on the side, they, like, work as a VC or something like that.
Yeah.
But yeah. That'd be cool. I think that's that's definitely, like, a lot more impactful, I would say.
Yeah.
Than, like, in my opinion, like, just kind of being a sweet
Yeah.
And it's like it also, like, integrates the health care side.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Definitely. And I guess, like, is that something that you would consider or not really?
I think I would. Like, yeah. I think I would wanna try for, a year.
Okay.
For sure.
Interesting. Okay. Okay.
And then see how it goes and then, like,
Yeah.
if I like it, I could stay.
Yeah.
If not, go back to school. Like, I think that's one of the benefits of PLEASE is that, like, they hold your spot for two years.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm I'm only asking these questions too because, like, what I'm con currently thinking the reason why I'm contacting a lot of also to build out, like, a network of people and also, like, as I'm transitioning, I wanna I'm I'm, like, happy to refer people to the right positions.
Ja,
So, like, if you are interested, then, like, obviously, I want you to, like, get into those roles. So I'll I'll refer you to those people kind of thing.
Yeah.
So
Wait. I think this is great. Yeah. Thanks for, like, being the person who's, like, doing all the outreach because I, like, never actually thought to talk to Sahil or, like, the Anonya girl or, like, all the other, like, I'm actually very disconnected with the I feel like.
Oh, no. I would need to. I think I was the most disconnected. So
I think the only, like, person in your year that I knew is, like, the Wesley squad.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like a lot of them.
And they are, like, the most quintessentially play me, like, the very, like, direct health and human biomassure, like, the very, like,
Oh, yeah.
I'm sure about medicine pathway people. So I just never considered this.
Yeah.
At all. Thank you for, like, reaching out.
Ya. No. No. No. Totally. But it it's something that you're interested in.
Yeah.
Right? Like, because I'll I'll reach out to you about it. Okay. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think I would definitely be interested. Like, I personally wouldn't recruit for, like, a sweet role.
Yeah.
Don't think but if I were to take a gap year, I think I would be interested in, like, working.
Yeah.
For this.
And I guess, like,
Or, like, as in health care FD or what you would whatever you call it.
yeah. I guess, like, the other thing is, like, I feel like with tech, especially in SF, like, there's, like, different ways to navigate it. And, like, there's also ways because, like, for example, I did, an internship or internship at Apple, before joining Google, I feel like tech also offers a lot of flexibility like that, especially if you're talented. Like, people don't really care
Ya.
that, like, is that talent here for what, like, three months. Like, as a full time engineer, like,
Yeah.
you think about it, he was onboarding for a month, and then for two months, he was, like, I know what he was doing for two months, and he just quit. Which is, like, the funniest thing ever. A lot of my friends do that too in tech.
Yeah.
It's super flex
Well, I guess it's mostly about like, they're mostly just looking for, like, the talent.
Yeah.
They were, like, like, what your background is and, like, even if you have a degree or not.
Yeah.
So I I think I do, like, thought about yourself.
I think what yeah. I think a lot of what a lot of people in I guess, like, don't realize is that, like, how appreciated their talent is especially if, like, you're because you already have a background in health care. And then you're like, on top of that, you're doing something else. Like, for Ananya, that was, like, Econ consulting, she's also leaning like, she the reason why she was super interested was because she was also leaning towards CS. There's also other people Like, have you heard of do you know Abdullah? Let me just put her in. He basically he finished his MD, actually. And then he went straight to Microsoft not like Meta Superintelligence Labs. And then he's at Google right now. But during his medical school years, he interned at Google Health.
I'm really like he's the same major as me.
So yeah, he's
Yeah.
actually talked to him two weeks ago, I'm gonna talk to him again at Google, like, next week because I think he's out of office right now or something. So I think his story is also pretty interesting. But, like, I think people, like, at are I think you're underselling yourself, or I think a lot of people are underselling themselves.
Yeah.
Because for example, in my resumes, when I applied to Suite, I didn't even put the ozipleme, and that's why I'm just a regular Sweet. But if you talk to the right people, and, like, I'm starting to to talk to the right people, realize how appreciated your background is because it's so rare. Like, nobody else is gonna be a premed with a guaranteed ND path and so hyper focused while also having a technical background. Which is exactly what like, FTEs are kind of trained to be And they also pay, like, a decent amount. So
We do the care because, like, well, at least, like, what I thought of play me
Uh-huh.
maybe this is, like, the premeds gaslighting me, but it's not, like, the undergrad and med school are so
Mhmm.
But, like, as a play, I wouldn't be able to contribute as much of a, like, medical or clinical knowledge Like, I feel like I'm just a regular undergrad. If that makes sense.
Uh-huh.
Like, at Brown, like, I just feel like I'm, like,
Yeah.
just an Alvavio person. Like, I never, like, identify myself as this
Uh-huh.
as a polygyny. Like, I just never feel like I'm a polygyny.
Yeah.
So I just don't know. Like, how much of a benefit, like, being a cleaning would be to these companies because I've had such a regular, like, underground like, undergrad, like, background or coursework.
Uh-huh. Yeah.
That makes sense? Like, yeah. Like, I don't know how much, like, being a pleasing itself I guess it would look good on a resume, but, like, I don't know how much it would bring to the company as an FD because I just never had, like, a clinical
Yeah.
experience, and I don't really know the workflow.
Yeah. I mean, there's actually, like, multiple benefits. Like, the first is that you have to think about the people that are applying to these rules. Like, I would say 99% are just pure computer science background people. And, like, the friend I was talking to, that was the Cheetos staff of Voya. He was basically also in charge of, like because he's chief of staff. He knows applicants. And they're a frontier AI lab. And a lot of people that try to apply that they reject like, they're very smart. They, like, worked out, like, OpenAI or whatever. And, like, the reason why they reject them is because they're not altruistic, and they have that mission of helping people. And, like, the founder is, like, a So she knows, like, who the right people are, who'd be a good culture fit, and who she wants to hire.
Yeah.
And it's just not, like, she doesn't wanna hire necessarily the smartest people, but she wants to hire the best people that are the best fit culturally. Are also very kind and also wanna help in health care. And I think that's a commonality that is shared across a lot of these other companies. Like, when I was talking to Open Evidence, I guess I wasn't really talking to them. My friend was talking to them. Like, he was telling me how, like, they really want people with, like, a medical background. They don't really wanna hire it doesn't make sense to hire, like, a Google software engineer to work out open evidence. It makes, like, no sense.
Yeah.
The other thing is, like, I was also talking to Chai Discovery, They focus on, like, drug discovery, I don't think they also wanna hire the you know, the cracked software senior software engineer from Pinterest. From TikTok. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, they're good at designing, like, software systems, but, like, when it comes to, like, health care problems, people with a health care background or even, like, at least some of a premed background, it just makes a lot more sense. Because, like, these technical people feel like you're underselling yourself in terms of, oh, it's a regular, you know, undergrad. I only took, like, I feel the same way. Right? I only took, like, the the required preemie courses and, like, obviously, I was, like, more into CS. But it's that edge that gives you, like, or that people actually want, that people actually appreciate at these companies.
Yeah. I feel like I never
I think you're kind of underselling yourself.
materialized that I was a plea
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I never really looked into any of these roles. Yeah. Have you talked to Kim?
Yeah.
Like, I'm personally not
The
too close to him. I just know him through a friend. Like, I met him once, but I know he, like, is that why I see
yeah. Yeah. I did hear that it's not going I didn't I didn't talk to him directly, but what I heard is, like, his cofounder quit. Right?
Oh, his curve, hundred Oh, his co founder was at Hugger Brown. Like, he was part of the team.
Oh, really? Okay. But
But I I think it was, like, CS Econ or something.
yeah. I think it's very ambitious. Like, I have his number, actually, so I'm probably gonna reach out to him. But yeah, I don't know too much about him, if I'm being honest. I think it's really interesting, though. There's there's Tain. I forgot the other guy, but there was also another guy who is in YC from Plimi. Don't know what's his name. But I'm probably gonna reach out to him as well.
Ja, Yeah. I just feel like well, I was looking into, like, startups, I think, when I was a freshman.
Oh, really? Okay.
Because a lot of my friends were very interested in, like, founding. Not from playing, but, like, from other schools. And
Yeah.
just thought, like, it wasn't too realistic. It would have been something, like, tame if I were to do it, but, like, I just thought if I were to count something, like, it would like yeah. I would wanna, like, go to med school first if I wanted to do something health care related was always my thought process.
Ya
At least for, like, founding something myself. But I think the role that you're describing, like, I guess, doesn't really require, like, an MD.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I think that's nice.
Yeah. I think I actually did try to find like, found something also applied to YC. Like, I did the interview, and then I didn't get in. I think the main reason is because, like, I have a in terms of making my company defensible. I guess I also applied a week before the deadline, so that's my fault. But I think you're right about, like, going through meds school if you wanna found something. In my opinion, like, you need to have something extremely vertical about you, like an extreme edge.
Yeah.
That other people can't really replace. And I think medical school is, like, one of the best ways to go for that.
I agree. And, like, even if you don't do residency, like, I well, he's like a friend of a friend, but his brother
Okay.
like, didn't go to residency. And he I think he wrote a whole, like, sub stock
Oh, really?
post about that. It seems like what's a Harvard vet? I just, like, saw it on my LinkedIn Monday.
Oh, is it pressing?
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Yeah. But I just remember reading something, like, why I decided not to apply to residency or something like that.
Oh, Oh, okay. Okay.
I think he does a lot of writing.
Yeah. His brother is very, very smart.
Richard?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel like I don't know if Richard's premed. I actually don't really know him. But I've, like, heard of him through, like, multiple of my friends from high school.
Oh, did you guys go to the high school again?
But he's very no. No. No. Like, I was friends with a lot of, like, the science for kids in high school.
Oh, okay.
And he was also very science fair.
Oh, did she do RSI?
No.
Okay. Okay.
But I was friends with a couple people. Who was in the same, like, cohort of RSI as him.
Okay. Okay. Oh, because you guys are the same year. Right?
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah. I don't know. I'm like
I think what they're doing is Yeah.
interested to see if he would ever go to med school. But I think his brother is definitely someone who's, like, leveraging his MD, but
Yeah.
doesn't really wanna go into, like, clinical medicine.
Yeah. I think so too. I think mean, both of them are really smart. The two brothers are extremely smart. They're a company it's I'm not a firm believer. But, like, I'm totally supportive. It's, like, helping if if you know about, like, software engineering packages, they always come with, like, health care insurance stuff. They wanna ensure that you have the most competitive package for that. Was my understanding of their startup. I'm not I'm not totally sold, but it's interesting for sure.
Ja, ja. Oh, he he's great with I see.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
I'm actually connected with, like, a lot of people I see right now. And, like,
Yeah. I mean, what that is from
the the consensus is, like, what YC does. They they have, like, a batch of, like, was it 60 people or, like actually, not a six. Is it a 100? I forgot. But every batch is, like, x number of people. And they basically crown, like, two of them. That they absolutely love. And then the other get, like, almost trashed. Is my understand. Like, I was talking to people there, and I was like, oh, okay. Damn. That's pretty brutal.
Ja.
So
Ja.
it's a very competitive market. But also you get 500 away. So
Let's I think it's, like, good
mean yeah.
experience. I think it's a very unique experience, and I think it's cool to do it as an underwriter especially.
Yeah.
But yeah. I feel like I've been pretty conservative in terms of, like, the path educational path I take.
Yeah.
Like, I just really thought of, like, taking time off of school.
Yeah.
Like, I've always just thought, like, at least I would, like, graduate regularly, like, as an undergrad. And then
Yeah.
think of potentially take a gap year
Yeah.
but I was leaning more towards just, like, going straight through.
Yeah.
But
Wait. Just to make sure, wait. You're I guess, like, your priorities are, like,
yeah.
you wanna have impact on people you also care about, like, the monetary aspect as well. Right? Okay.
Ja, I think so.
Okay. That's pretty similar to me. Interesting. Because I think my philosophy is also, like, reason why I'm taking a year is that, like, to get unconventional outcomes, you need to take unconventional bets And I think, like, one of the bets that I wanna take is, like, a bet on myself for the next year. Which means oh, I wanna I wanna just join Google for a little bit just to get the money, and then see what, I guess, like, roles I can get outside of that. And maybe I don't know. Maybe apply to YC. Maybe apply to, like, these startups. But I'm not sure yet. But I am getting connected with a lot of people here. So I'm, like, happy to refer you.
Ja,
If, like, you're interested as well.
Yeah. Would you would you take it another year off, like, for sure? Or, like, are you
I think it would
yeah.
like, I guess, like, there is multiple paths I'm considering. One of them being, like, FTE and health care My friend is extremely plugged in into, like, a lot of these companies like Cognition, Open Evidence, and stuff. So he can plug me in I'm happy to plug you in in as well. The other path is, like, I have another friend who's doing a start up, and he's raising a seed round by the end of the month. Like, I wanna get to know his idea better, but if I join him, wants me to join as, like, a founding engineer. And seeing if obviously, I get I get equity. So I'm I'm trying to weigh my options, but we'll we'll see.
Cool.
Cool. I don't I don't wanna because I know it's getting late there, but
It's fine. Like, I usually say it to, like, two.
really, in Korea? Like, wait. Are you busy or, like,
So Yeah. I'm chilling my family.
are you just chilling with your family?
And I'm just meeting with a couple of friends. Like, I'll have a lot of friends who are international or, like, from Korea.
Okay.
So I'm just meeting up with them, and a lot of my friends actually just finished their military service.
Oh, shit. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
So we're, like, meeting up with them as well. They, like, left as a freshman, and like, they have to take two years off and then come back as a sophomore when you're actually a senior.
Yeah. And these people And these people, I'm assuming, aren't, like, Korean universities.
No. No. No. Like, they're, like, international students.
Oh, okay.
Like, US.
Dang. Okay. Okay.
Colleges. But they I think they're I think it's like a citizenship thing. If you're a Korean, like, male citizen, you have to go.
Yeah.
But I don't know about dual citizens. Or, actually, I think for guys, have
Yeah.
to give up your dual citizenship. Like, you have to choose one. Oh, have you talked to Eugene? Eugene Chang in Meyer? He's,
No. I don't think so.
He's, computational neuroscience. Or computational biology.
Okay. Yeah.
But, yeah, he's, the only other computational person I know in my ear. But
Okay. Bye.
I have no idea what he's doing. Like, I think the last time I caught up with him was, like, sophomore spring.
Okay. It's been decent.
But I think he's also, like,
Using
very into yeah. I can type it in the chat.
Okay. He published in scientific reports. Very interesting.
I think he's he's, like, very interested in, like, neuro, but I don't really know what his, like, interests are now. But he's done a lot of, like, neurorated research.
Okay. Okay. I'll reach out to him. Interesting.
Yeah. He's cool. Yeah. But I think he's he's one of the people who who, like, gave up his dual citizen jet
Yeah.
he didn't wanna, like, do military service. Yeah. I
Are you a dual dual citizen? Oh,
Yeah. I think girls can keep it Yeah.
Very cool. I think I'm also dual. But I have
Wait. Are you Japanese?
I'm half.
You're half.
I'm half towered with Japanese. So I can be
Oh, cool. Because I saw your middle name.
wait. What?
Because your middle name is, like, Yuki.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could be triple if I wanted to, but I don't have a Japanese
Wait. Whitley.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Cool.
I wonder how we can reference that.
Would you, like, stay
It's kinda inter
what?
I wonder how I could leverage that.
Yeah.
We'll see.
Yeah. No. I think that's like, I don't think I've ever met, like, a half Tony's half
Yeah. I mean,
Japanese person.
Yeah. I mean, it's very, very niche. Very
Yeah.
yeah.
That's interesting. Would you
Sorry. What were you gonna say?
Would you, like, stay from California. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
If you, like, were to go to residency, would you stay in California?
Would probably prefer California because, like, you can't choose. Right?
What do mean? Or I mean,
Like, can you choose where to do residency?
Well, you can, like, rank.
Oh, okay. Yeah. I guess I would rank like, California as a higher priority. But I'm assuming you would do New York Right?
I think so. I'm, like, still deciding, which is, like,
Okay.
why I was, like, considering like, I was definitely, like, considering spending some time in NASA for a while,
Yeah.
because I wanted to choose where I want to live. Like, I think my parents are, like, you can live in whatever city you want.
Yep.
But I was, like, leaning towards New York because I have a lot of friends there.
Mhmm.
And my cousin also, like, lives there and stuff.
Mhmm.
But I was like, I've always been interested in SF and, like, I also have friends in Tech Who Are, Like, In SF. And, like, are like, the city a lot. So
Yeah. Yeah.
yeah. I was just curious.
I will say the consensus is that, like, New York is better. But because I was talking to
Yeah. I feel like the people are like, oh my god. I, like, go to New York to, like,
Uh-huh.
find girls.
Oh, okay. Okay. I see.
And then come back or something like that? Because, like, the SF dating scene is so cooked.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Think I don't know. I think AirSouth is a good place to, like,
Yeah.
just do tech. If you're interested in tech, you should be in SF. But everything else, I feel like New York is better. Terms of, like, food. Transportation is better. I feel like the city life is just better. I was talking to Ashton. He also wants to go to New York. So I don't know.
Wait. Really? Okay. I, like,
Yeah. Yeah.
talked to Ashton in a while too. I, like, I think he was, like, between Seattle and, like, SF, and I was like, you should go to SF.
Okay. Yeah. His Seattle and SF. I think SF is the better choice. But
Yeah. But I feel like a lot of people in, like, SF, like,
Ajá.
romanticize New York. I was like, maybe that's yeah. I don't know. And, like, my friends are complaining about just, the gender ratio and how, like,
Yeah.
some people are really getting tired of the typos.
Yeah. It it is kinda tiring. Like, I go to these, like, coffee shops and then, like,
Yeah.
the people that come in, they're just starting to talk about, like, the same I mean, it just gets so tiring.
Yeah.
Just hear about, like, oh, like, why I see this? Why I see that? And then, like, oh, like, oh, I'm doing my software engineering internship or something. It's all the same conversations.
I think it's
Kind of what yeah.
that was what my friends were saying. Were like, everything is so, like, not working. And so like, tech
Yeah.
So
Like, have you heard the term, like, Mark?
But, yeah,
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. A lot of labors.
Yeah. There's a lot of larvers. Yeah. It's like I think one of the things that you have I learned early on is, like, how to weed out the people that are, like, just larping, which is kind of hard. Because, like, some people are so convincing when they talk. And then when you actually get to know them, you're like, oh, okay. So you're just like a total larvae.
Ya.
They went to, like, YC's start up school instead of, like, the actual YC or some something. Like, they they kind of leave out details like that.
Oh my god. The YC serve school people are so
So yeah.
Like, I see their LinkedIn posts all the time. And it's, like, literally, like, what?
Yeah.
Like, you just, like, go to a talk by, like, a couple people, like, couple of influential people. It's, like, like, not YC. Like, why you posting about it all the time?
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Went to start up school. Funny story. And then, like, I only went for the free food and the Cloud Code credits, and I just left. It was just, like, not that interesting.
That's all.
Then the other thing is, like, you go in there, there's, like, 10,000 people all trying to listen to the same thing.
Yeah.
They're not even saying anything that insightful.
Yeah.
So
Ja. My friends did YC start up school, I think, freshman year. And
Okay.
yeah, I think they it it was just mostly, like, a networking thing. I don't think they actually, like, enjoyed the talks by, like, Jensen or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But I think it was, a nice way for, like, freshman to meet other freshman. Yeah. Cool.
Cool. But okay. Let me just write this down because, like, I just wanna make sure. So you're you're interested in, like, FTE's FTE roles potentially. Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah. I don't really know how to, like, how it would work. Like, I've actually never been involved in a start up or any company.
Yeah.
So
I mean, the other thing is, like, I also don't wanna refer you to, like, shitty company either. So I'll make sure to do, like, find a good one. Like, Cognition, obviously, like, they pay extra like, you've heard of Cognition. Right?
Ja.
Or not? Okay. Okay. Like,
Well, I've heard of it, but, like, I've never really looked into any of these.
okay. Like, they're, like, I would say they're, like, top tier talent. The smartest person from my high school he's current he was, like, the first 20 employees there. And, like, since then, they're they're growing extremely fast, and they're extremely talented. So yeah. I'll I'll probably refer you to the right people to try to get you in if you're interested. So
Ya.
but, yeah, of course.
Thank you so much again. Like, this is really cool.
Don't know. Yeah. I'm trying to assess what everyone else is doing. Like, I think if you're interested in, like, going through MD, think Abdullah is a good person to contact.
Ya.
The person to the chat.
Did he do a residency?
He's like the No. He just finished MDD.
No.
He's he's very, like, his path, I think, is one of the most interesting that I've seen that I've talked to.
Yeah.
So
We I'm, like, just curious. Like, what is the pay for, like, a clinical AI researcher at Google?
What's the clinical AI oh, what Abdullah is doing?
Well, that's Well, that's Yeah. That's what he said he's doing. It is, like, a LinkedIn hub.
I think it depends. Like, do you know how TCs work?
No?
Like, breakdown? Okay. So, like, for example, a lot of people at, like, Tesla autopilot Straight on New Grad, they're earning 600 k. But
No
what they're getting is a lot in stock. So they're, like, $1.60 in cash, $1.60 k in cash. The rest is, like, maybe a sign on bonus. And then so maybe in cash, that first year, they're like, 200 k. And then the rest will be, like, stock. So they're earning, like, 400 k in, like, Tesla stock. I think for Abdullah, his TC is like, I think he's there's, different levels at Google. There's, like, l three, which well, I am. Which is new grad. L four, which is, like, a step higher, l five is, like, senior, and then l six is, like, manager. He's probably l six.
Because of the
Because, like, he's med. Yeah. Like, I'm sure he's, like, at least l five or l six.
Yeah.
And because he's an AI researcher and not a suite, he probably has a pay bump. So I would estimate his salary to be, like, t c would probably be, like, 600. Base would probably be, like, two fifty $2.50, I would assume. So he's probably earning, like, 250 to 300 in cash. And the rest is probably Google stock. But it would probably depends because, like, do you know who Nathan let me just have him in the chat because I don't I don't wanna butcher his last name. But he is at Google DeepMind, And, like, he only graduated a year ago, so he's very, very recent. I talked to him, like, two weeks ago. And, like, he's extremely talented. So he is he's only a senior software engineer at d mind. But then he tried to leave two times. Because he's just that good. And then they pay bumped him twice. So the only company that can match his salary right now is Anthropic. But I would also estimate his salary after just two years is probably easily, like, 600 k. Yeah. Like,
Oh, wow.
a lot of these people I'm talking about is definitely within that high 6 figure range, I would say. And then probably the the cash is probably gonna be, like, 200 to 300 k.
Wait. So what's, like, stopping you?
From
From, like, just going, like, fully into this? Because, like, it does fulfill the requirement of, like, the pay and the impact.
Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, the two that I mentioned, they're, like,
And it's like yeah.
software or I guess Nathan is a software engineer. And then Abdullah is, like, a clinical AI researcher.
Ya.
Which is kind of different rules. I mean, what's stopping me is, like, I guess, one, I I have to, like, quit Google So I can't quit Google. Like, I only joined last week.
Yeah.
I can't just be like, oh, I joined. I signed the offer, and I'm just gonna quit after a week.
Well, you have a lot of time
So there's that.
Well, you have a lot of time to, like, work on other stuff while you're working there.
Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's my goal right now. It's still a bunch of networking.
Yeah.
And then I'm probably gonna apply to these roles too. Also, because, like, sometimes these roles, they don't show up or they show up, but then they show up as a different role title But then if you look at the JD, like, the job description, it's totally what an FTE in health care would do. So I actually need to find the right rules, apply to them, and then get in the process kind of thing. But yeah.
It sounds
The only thing that's stopping me is, like, I'll I'll need to start it. I don't wanna I wanna quit. Right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
I I I probably wanna give it, like, a month
Mhmm.
or two. And then in the meantime, I'll probably be recruiting and then quit.
Wait. This guy made ours He made the hours, I'll say. That's crazy.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
He was, like, the head TA at Brown.
Wow. Parece cool.
Yeah. But he wants to quit Google as well. So the last time I talked to him, he's
Ya.
said that he's interested in, like, startups. And he wants to quit to start something, which should be pretty interesting.
That'll be very cool. Especially if you're, like, so in touch with him. Like, yeah. I wonder what you were most certain.
Yeah. But I also just also contacted all these people, including you, to let you know that, like,
Ja.
I feel like you're underselling yourself. Kind of thing.
Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. Because I I just never was aware of any of this. So
Yeah.
yeah.
Awesome.
I feel like I
I might have to head out like, a bit. Wait. No. No. Wait. What are you saying?
yeah. Like, yeah, I just feel like I've always heard of, like, you and Sahu as, like, the two main, like, salespeople in, like, being your
Alright. Interesting.
So, yeah, it's, like, nice to actually, like, talk to you and I haven't so consigned in a while. But, yeah, it's cool that he's also, like, in the similar, like, interesting
I saw who just texted me, like, yesterday. He was like what what did he say? Oh, because I met up with Dean Jang yesterday. Or Tuesday, and that was kind of interesting.
Oh, wait. You met up with DJ?
Yeah. Yeah. She sets up a call for everyone that's taking a gap, and I think saw who was, like, asking about it.
Okay.
But but it was really chill. It was really chill.
Yeah.
So just, like, whether I wanna come back and, obviously, like, yeah. I wanna come back. I don't know. I feel like it's just gonna say I wanna come back and then
Yeah. I feel so.
see where it goes. Because I think med is, like, also not bad in terms of, like, I don't I don't say not bad. It's, like, really good. But I'm trying to figure out, like, what I wanna do next year. Before, like, I actually tell her
When do you have to, like, decide by
anything. So I think October Yeah.
for, like, practice plans? October? Oh, that's, like, a pretty quick like, deadline.
Yeah. I think it's fine. That's, what, two months?
Yeah.
I'll figure it out. Yeah. You too.
Well, best of luck. Thanks again for, like, reaching out.
Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. I think it's pretty rare to see, like, people that aren't doing, like, conventional things in play me. I feel like I would say 90% of play me is doing, like, just a regular biomejor or, like, neuroscience. So
Ya. Ja. I think it's super cool too.
Yeah. I need to catch my boss, but
That's
I'll definitely contact you about, like, FTE roles.
cool.
If I see any.
Ja.
And if you're, like, interested in anything else, you can always, like,
Thank you so much.
message me. I'll just drop my numbers so you can just, like, text me and try and faster.
Yeah. Okay.
Cool.
Well, it was great
Yeah. It
Well, it was great chatting, and
Yeah. It sorry. We're going over it. I know it's getting late there too. So
oh, no. No. No. This is, like, regular work time period. So
wait. Okay. I see. I see.
yeah.
Cool.
Okay.
Alright.
Well, have a nice day.
Yeah. You too. Thanks for chatting. Awesome.
Thank you.
Alright. See you.
Bye.
Bye.