Interview — 2026-08-27

Hello.

Hi, can you hear me?

Yep.

Cool. Cool. Cool. Thanks for meeting today.

Yeah. No. Thanks for being so accommodating.

Wait. No. You're so good. You're so good. And you're in China right now. Right?

Yeah. I'm in China.

Dang. Okay. Wait. How long are you staying for?

I did, like, a well, the studio I was at this summer is kind of between, like, The US and China, and they do, like, bilingual publications. So I was here for a while.

Okay. Interesting.

Yeah.

Okay. Cool.

So

Wait. I feel like I saw some of your work, like and also to Melissa about it as well. Like, she told me that you're really into, like, web design.

So

Interesting. Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

And, like, I guess, like, on my side, like, there's a there's a lot of companies that want designers to, like, do tasks for them. And so, like, I kinda wanted you and, like, if you knew any other people to, like, take on these tasks, obviously, like, for money. So I was just, like, wondering like, where your head's at with that kind of task.

Okay. Well, I'm open to it myself. And then in terms of like, I guess, my connections,

Yeah.

do you are you aware of the RISD design guild Okay.

No. I don't I have no idea.

No. It's fine. It's like so for RISD, the yearbook, commencement student orientation and then, like, a bunch of other activities that go on in the school. Are actually designed by like, a a guild, like, a studio of about seven designers that are all students. Yeah. And it's it's a paid job. Like, it's a on campus job, and I'm currently, like, the manager or, like,

Okay.

just, like, whoever is in charge of the administration stuff. On top of this mining court. So I think what usually happens is we take on freelance jobs on the side, and anyone who has US citizenship so who's legally able to work in a freelance capacity is able to take those jobs. If you want to, one way we could do it is, like, we could set up that as a freelance opportunity. And then otherwise, in terms of people who are especially interested in web at school, I know, like, two underclassmen off the top of my head.

Yeah.

The good thing is I'm teeing, like, the web class this semester.

Oh, okay.

So I won't know.

Yeah.

Interested and, like, good at it.

Yeah.

So yeah. But probably we could work things out a bit more once I get back there.

Yeah. Wait. When do you get back, you said?

School starts for us on the sixth.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

And classes on.

Next week kind of thing?

Mhmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. Interesting. Wait. So is the guild, like, the guild isn't web designers. It's, like, just purely, like, any type of designers. Or

The guild is, like, purely graphic designers, like, in terms of, like, yeah. But we've done web projects in the past.

Interest

I also I just know, like, a couple of people who are, like, currently working graduated I don't know their availability.

Okay.

Yeah. Mhmm.

And is the guild, like you said they do it for free. Like, they do freelance?

They do freelance as in, like, so part of our work is, like but the way we get work at Guild is, like, people in the school email us or we reach out to them. But, also, we have, like, kind of, like, a outside, like, Google document situation where sometimes people will come to us with jobs.

Yeah.

And then, basically, we get paid our rate changes every year. Last year, it was $16 an hour.

$65.

So pretty yeah. A lot of I feel like a lot of out outside people take on guild work because it's, like, cheap and good quality. But yeah. That basically, that's how build runs. But yeah.

And you said wait. You you were saying?

Mhmm. I think people with a especially, like, kind of web expertise are rare in

Okay.

But, yeah, there's, like, one to two people off the top of my head. But, yeah, Mhmm.

Okay. Interesting. And you said you're, like, the manager of the guild?

Mhmm. Yeah.

So, like, do you, like, take on the jobs and then, like, allocate it to, like, the different designers? Or, like, what's your role as a designer?

Ma'am,

Or as a manager?

manager is basically keep an eye out for the jobs. And then, like, we have, meetings weekly. So I'll, like, go to people and be like, who wants this?

Okay.

Job? And, if someone takes it, take it. But yeah. In terms of, like, I feel like for Guild, the thing is I can't pick someone for the job. Like, it's pretty, like, free in terms of whoever wants the job gets the job, so I can't guarantee you a quality, like, aside from the fact that

Я

Guild is a highly exclusive like, very rigorous kind of place.

Я.

Outside of that, I think, like so like, if you are really, like, wanting, I guess, like, price kind of, like because I I think people will offer people won't offer a lower price than the guild, like, hourly.

Okay. But how much do people usually, like, offer?

Yeah. That's that's so it really it depends on, like, the actual kind of thing you want done. Because what people will do usually is they'll look at kind of, like, the hours it takes on their side. And then, usually, when the hourly rate is, like,

Yeah.

pretty high. So what people will do is they'll tell you, okay. If I charge you hourly, my estimation is this much. However, like, this is a project that I want to work with, so I'll, like, cut off this like, x amount, and, like, you can pay a single kind of sum. And then afterwards, it's usually, like, like, say, if someone comes to me with a web project, depending on the price, depending on the time, I'll be like, okay. So I'm gonna give you one round of feedback or two rounds of feedback or three rounds of feedback opportunities, and those three kinds of feedback opportunity rounds will give you the ability to kind of tell me what you want changed, how much you want changed. But after that, we're done.

Okay.

So yeah, it either means if you want a change after that, you're either gonna have to we're gonna have to kind of renegotiate the price or you might have to find another designer. So usually, that's how it goes. But usually, gets worked out. Like, pretty soon, so it's not that bad.

Okay.

Yeah.

So the process would be, like, if I'm getting it right, there'll be, like, a there'll be somebody that reaches out to you that wants to design

Mhmm.

and it'll get put, like, into a Google doc. And then, like, the designers in the guild would basically choose which projects they wanna take on. And then also, they negotiate the price on there. Is that right?

For Guild, it's a little bit different. So

Okay.

you're close with the Google Docs thing. It's not necessarily a Google Docs, but it's like it's like a Google survey that you have to fill out with, like because usually, if people don't come to me the

Yeah.

you kind of, like, just go online and you're, like, is what I need, x y z. Yes. I'm aware I have to pay. And then after that, the person who's, like, behind all of the like, tasks, like checking the email, checking the doing all of that is me. So I'll see those first. And then at the meeting, because, like, the reason why we don't let people, like, just kind of check at any time they want is because in the past, we've had, like, a few instances where a bunch of people really wanted one opportunity, and it just

Yeah.

came to the person who checked the mail fastest. And people thought that was not fair. So that's why we do it, like, per meeting basis now. And so, like, in that case, it would be, like, sometimes the client kind of knows how many hours they want put into it because they have, like, a limited budget. So they'll tell us, okay. I only want it done under, like, twenty hours. Then we'll try to work with that and, like so we'll agree. Anything above twenty hours, I'll tell you. But also, like, don't anything, like, extra. But, like, other times, like, last year, we had actually, like, a branding and web client who didn't really know the hourly and everything. So what happened is before we started actually designing, we had a meeting with him to kind of figure out what he actually wanted done and, like, kind of, like, what platforms did he wanna custom domain who would be put like, paying for everything. So those logistics will be worked out with the design guild people. What I will say is, like, design guild people sometimes depending on who chooses the project are sophomores who haven't really worked.

Okay.

In the real world and do not know how to negotiate. So sometimes in those cases, I might tag along to the meeting or

Yeah.

someone more senior will tag along and, like, help them do it. So, yeah, that's the thing with design build. What I told you otherwise about, like, people charge their own hourlies and then calculate it down to, like, a final sum. That's usually what happens in, like, real world kind of if you just find that the designer And I know that because some, like, masters, like, some grad student told me

Yeah.

who has a design practice. They're like, that's how they do it.

Interesting.

Mhmm.

What's, like, the average, like, price or, like, that designers usually kind of charge for?

I I think it's really hard to pin down, like, a average price. Right? Because

Okay.

design projects vary so

Yeah.

much. Like, even if you say you want a web project, it's like, how many pages are we talking? Do you want, like, a

Я.

dynamic or static website? And, like, how much custom code do you need in?

Right.

It it just goes on and on. So

Okay. Have, like, a list of tasks that, like,

Mhmm.

they sent like, one company sent me. Like, I think it's not that specific. Like, how much detail would you need Like, the these are four different tasks, by the way. Let me separate it. But, like, how much detail would, like, a designer need to, like, make an informed decision and, like, kind of estimate how long it would take? Just so, like, I can provide, like, the necessary resources.

Okay. I think anything that has to do with a redesign, it really depends on the scope of the company too, because I've worked with small startups who are like, we don't really care what you do, just make me something. But I've also worked with slightly larger places that are like we already have, like, a design language in place. Like, people will have books or, like, PDFs of style guidelines.

Yeah.

Like, things that they've already have built. So there will probably need to be some kind of, like, a coordination meeting before that will offer people the time to just, like, work it out like that.

Okay.

And then let's see. Design systems are really tricky to price because that's really up

Okay.

like, legalities regarding the design system. So that's, like, very much like a you gotta go talk to whoever you're working with specifically for that one.

Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying that there are a lot of these, like, there needs to be a lot of

I

of back and forth between, like, the designer and the company. Like, we can't just, like, provide you with a bunch of

ja.

resources. And then just, like, expect it to, like, I guess, like, for the designer to make it completely. Right?

Well, are are you trying to Luisa told me that there was something you're starting with a recruiting firm. Are you basically trying to make, like, a system so that you can make it pretty, like, streamlined in terms of, like,

Я, я, Алёна, I guess it's yeah. Guess we're just, the middleman in terms of, like, there's a lot of

Mhmm.

companies that I know that wanted get, like, redesigns. Like, this is one example. And obviously, I'm not a designer. My team is not design focused. I know there's, a lot of people in RISD that might be interested in it. So I was just like, hoping to be the middleman to make the process as easy as possible. So I just wanna know, like, what should do as, like, the middleman to ensure that the process is pretty smooth.

Ah, sí. I think first of all, looking at these four tasks, if they're, like, offerings,

Ja.

what what stands out to me is, like, redesigns for onboarding web app, are kind of, like, one group, and then design system is one group because design system is not really don't need tech for design system. You can design a design system without technological

Yeah.

kind of background. And then the iMessage mini game thing is, like, another thing.

Yeah.

Too because for that, you'll actually need to know how to code. And it's like yes, a lot of designers can vibe code,

Ага.

How kind of, like, quality that vibe coding is is really designer to designer. So I feel like if you want to try to provide designers with things I mean, off the top of my head, what you could do is you could say, like, you could have the client kind of, like, go down a list of things they want in terms

Yeah.

technicalities. So do you want, like, a pure, like, coded website, or do you have some kind of web host in mind? Like, working with cargo is very different from working with Webflow or Framer.

Sure.

So I think that's gonna change, like, who picks up the job, or someone who just, like, straight up just hard codes it, which I can do that, but I know how many people at RISD can do that.

Yeah.

What else? Let me think. For websites. I think for web web app redesigns, it will be good to kind of say, like, what actually that web app is doing. Like, maybe it's just good honestly to provide them, like, a text box of, like, just, like, describing what they're actually doing.

Yeah.

Because I can already think, like, web app could mean so many different things.

Ja.

It might also be good. Like, to just have kind of, like, a, like, a menu of staple items that go on a website. Like, that people might want to focus on? Like, do you want a really, like, typographically focused website, which means, like, a lot of flashy type, or do you want it to be more, like, image based What kind of website is it? Like, are you trying is it a retail website? Are you selling, like, some kind of product, or is it more like a introductory kind of, like, here's my business kind of website for people to see as, like, the front of their job, but not necessarily, like, as a retail space.

Yeah.

Or, like, sometimes people just want, like, a experimental demo thing to, like, show that they're cool. There's probably a more professional way to word that, but, like, I think those three are also different things that require different skills.

Okay. Interesting.

Mhmm.

Do you have, like, an example of, like, what the designers are usually provided from, like, your clients? Just so I kind of know, like, what to ask for, like, the AI or, the companies I'm working with. Like, hey. You need to provide these at a bare minimum so that the designers can, like, actually understand what you actually want.

I can, like, give you the link to the guild Google Sheet later so you can just go down the questions.

Yeah, probably that'd be great.

Yeah. But, honestly, most details can only be worked out in, like, back and forth.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which is lot of being a designer is negotiating.

Wait. When you say negotiating, are you saying, like, negotiating the price or negotiating, like, how the design is done?

Everything, really, because the thing, like, after I've had three internships as a designer and, like,

Mhmm.

aside from, like, kind of freelance jobs, what you see in, like, across all of these very different spaces is I guess, like, this is also, like, a design problem if you wanna this. But, like, a lot of the times, people, like your clients, will not actually know what they want.

That's true. Yeah.

Like, they'll they'll have, like, some parts of it very thought out, and then the rest of it is kind of not thought out at all. So your job at the very beginning of the design phase rather than making something is really being like, okay. Well, why do you want something? What are you into? What do you absolutely not want? What are your, like, hard limitations? So it's a lot of talking it through like that. And sometimes it gets, like, really personal. Like, we had, like, a restaurant branding client who started talking about their identity and stuff. So like, you really don't know what way that first part of design

Yeah.

will go. Because yeah. I guess you could ask people who are coming to you to have, like, as clear as an

Я.

as possible, but that's, like, a really hard ask.

That's true. That's true.

Yeah.

Okay. Thing. And I'm assuming there's also like, how does the payment work? Like, does it, like, the company or the client would pay the designer for like, upfront? And then the designer it? Or is it, like, the designer would give the design and then the company gives it, like, once they approve of

I think?

the design.

I think that's up to the middleman and the designer, but also, like, what the places I've worked at, it's upfront. And then, like, if you gotta add money, you add money.

Okay.

Mhmm.

And what's the maximum you charge before? Just curious.

Maximum, Maximum, for a web project, we've charged well, it was a really simple web project.

Ja,

And it wasn't billed, so I was not charging a lot.

Я.

You can kind of take this as a minimum. I charged around a thousand and $50 or so. But that was there was a lot of complications.

Okay. And what's the

So yeah.

maximum that the guilt has charged?

Sometimes we have unlimited budget. So

Okay. Interesting.

yeah.

Like, what did that it meant to be like that?

I can tell you, like, a a large part where the money comes from.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So, like, aside from just, like, pure labor hours, one thing that really sucks up money is assets. So you might wanna, like, talk it through with clients if they are okay with, like, paying additional for certain assets. Like, for example, Typeface cost a lot sometimes. So sometimes, like, if like, one thing to shave off immediately off, like, I guess, like, actual meeting hours is, like, if the person's like, oh, I want a free typeface. Or if they're like, I'm okay with paying with a typeface from x to y, price range. Because, like, if we sometimes, like, if you really want, like, a like, a really good typeface, those can cost, like, up to, like,

Okay.

few €100. So

Okay. Okay. Let me

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting. Wait. So is the maximum like, what do you say the maximum that

Mhmm.

they've charged at the guild be, like, 10 k? Like, would that be your good estimate?

10 k is a good 10 k is a good estimate for, like, large, large projects.

Okay. Wait. What counts as, like, a large project? Like, would each of these

Yeah.

bullet points that I sent you would be, like, considered a large project, or are these, like, on the lower end?

I'd say iMessage Mini game design is a pretty large project just because, like, that's, like, you need to do the actual product design unless there's a product design and working with the Oh, it will be good if the clients can say if they actually have, like, a design team already.

Я. I think a majority of the time, because I'm targeting a lot of, like, tech companies, like, they can do the coding They probably just want, like, what you said about, like, assets or, like, a Figma mock up design kind of thing? So that they use it on their side. But yeah, I'll I'll make sure to let them know.

Or, like, if this is truly, like, a solo job. You know what I mean? Yeah. Mhmm. Big Mac mock up should be really quick. That that should be again, this is, like, a caveat of, like, if it's truly, like, a single web page. I think a good way to measure the money is, like, based on how many different web pages or how many different interaction flows. Are in one project. Right? Because that essentially, like, determines how many different components there are in the design job. Now if there's only, like, one to two components, so if they're really just looking for, a simple thing online to mark their that should not be causing more than, a thousand dollars at most.

Okay.

Unless they want some fancy WebGL interaction.

Interesting.

That's that's the thing. It's like experimental things

Yeah.

are their own bracket because sometimes those cost a lot. And sometimes not a lot at all.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

Standard websites are pretty oak.

Yeah.

I'm also I'm curious, though. Like, from, a design point, like, why aren't these people just coding their own websites? Like, what are what are the types of websites these people, like, your clients are wanting?

Yeah.

So that they aren't just, like, vibe coding them in ten minutes?

Yeah. No. That's a good question. I think that, like, like, you can vibe code it. That's true. But, like, a lot of it is just, like, well, it will just be, like, animation. Like, I think you can vibe code, like, some of WebGL.

Mhmm.

You can vibe code, like, a solid website But, like, a lot of times, what ends up happening is, like, they either think it looks like Slop And, also, like, there's this idea in, like, tech of, like, taste where, like, they don't have good taste in what good design would look like. Like, I think that's what like, they want designers for because people, like, you have experience in knowing, like, what actually looks good to people. Don't know what actually looks good. So they're just, like, coding something, and they're like, is this good? Is this not? Like, we have no idea. I think that's the main thing. And so they want, like, a designer to, like, come in and, you know,

I

help them out. I can show you, like, one example of, like,

Oh, yeah. Sure.

a company. Let me see if I can pull it up. Do I have it? See. Oh, here it is. Like, this is one example of a company that, like, they like, I think the from my eyes, I don't know about how it looks from your eyes,

Mhmm.

but, like, from my eyes, it looks alright already. But, like, they want someone to, like, redesign their website like, in a better way. And, obviously, we're gonna go back and ask them, like, specifics exactly they want. But they just want to, like, get an actual, like, designer to make sure it actually looks good to people.

Ah, I see. I think Yeah. I think these kinds of jobs, just like from this one website,

Yeah.

Also, it really did Also, it really depends on the expertise of the designer because you have to be around the blocks a few times until you know what you're doing in terms of actually talking with people and not designing, which is, like, I think

Yeah.

larger part of the design job is to figure what your client actually wants But I think, like, a thing like this if you're looking for, like, a student designer, should not be costing more than $3,000 at most.

Interesting. Okay. Interesting. Okay.

Yeah. And I'm I'm putting that price there because they already have a lot

Mhmm.

And I'd say that as a designer, like, who's doing a redesign, your job is not only to design something new but also to

E

spend time evaluating, like, what's there already, what should be kept, and what should like, kind of be reworked. So, like, I think for anything like that, part of the pricing goes into the initial kind of, like, reflection on what is already there instead of just, like,

Right.

saying, I'm gonna design something from scratch. Usually, the way the design process goes in terms of, like, the things they'll teach you at art school is you research and then you present, like, kind of like a mood board or a

Yeah.

couple of directions to whoever you're working with. And then your client will choose one direction, and then you go like, do more in that direction. And that's, like, just, like, kind of, like, the business model everyone follows. But prior to, like, that research phase, like, when you're doing a redesign, you're adding, like, a phase of, like, looking at your clients. Right? And then, like, looking at their audience, looking at their competitors. Like, there's probably if they're a good designer who's actually responsible, there's, a bit of client analysis and, like,

Yeah.

kind of just, like, competitor analysis in the very beginning that also adds to the money. So that's why it's, like, 3,000 ish. So you're doing more than design.

Okay.

Yeah.

And, like, let's just say or I guess, like, let's just say, like, that one company I mentioned, wants, like, four different tasks. Like, the let's just say flip text, like the one they sent you, wants all four of these done. Like, I'm assuming that, like, there needs to be, like, coherency between, like, all all four tasks. To make sure, like, they're all, like, thematically, like, coherent.

Mhmm.

Like, what would be, like, the kind of structure for that? In terms of, like because I'm assuming we probably need four designers, one for each task. And then like, would they need to communicate with each other? Would we need another person to, like, I guess, like, ensure that everything's coherent. Like, what do we need for that?

Need I don't think you need four designers. You can have two designers. It's not always, like, the more designers the faster something will get done.

Okay.

So looking at these four tasks, there's obvious like, to me, there's a very obvious or, like, clear like, kind of, like, order to them. Designing a design system will always go first.

Okay.

That might take the longest, actually, because design systems are what need the most back and forth. With the whoever is, like, your client. Because that means you're making unless they don't want, like, the logo type and the logo, which is usually, like, the big thing, And that's, like, usually where people will have a lot of opinions, and it goes

Okay.

a lot of rounds.

Interesting.

In yeah. In the past, there's people who are less particular, and there's people who are very particular for the very particular people in the past, I've seen someone literally, like, pull up their Figma and have a three hour conversation, like, while they're working with them. So it's like

Okay.

if they're more hands off, that'll be faster. It really depends on how hands on the client

Yeah.

is really. So the design system will go first. And then afterwards, it's gonna be, like, the large thing. So web app seems larger than, like,

Yeah.

just the onboarding redesign. Or the iMessage mini game. So then we'll do the web app because that's kind of like a projection, like a more comprehensive projection of what the identity will look like online. And then from that, you can pull things into the iMessage UI.

Yeah.

And then onboarding is kind of usually done, like, somewhere in between. Or, like, towards the end just because it's so quick that once you have the entire system down, it'll be really fast to apply it.

Okay.

Mhmm.

Interesting.

Yep.

And how much, like, back and forth do you or, like, the designer and the client need to have typically?

You can kind of because back and forth, like, as I talked about earlier with the meeting thing, like, rounds of

Yeah.

that's kind of put in oh, sorry. Someone's at the door. Need to go and send it. Okay. Okay. As what I was saying. So let's just assume that you've paid for, like, two rounds of conversation per item because the first round is, like, to choose a direction, and the second round is, like, just one round of feedback. If it's one round of feedback and that and then you have, like, four things, then that's, like, just, like, eight rounds, like, eight proper meetings. But in the middle, like, usually, people will text. Sometimes if there's things to text about.

Okay.

Mhmm.

I see. Also, they would need to basically pay for x amount of meetings.

Ya.

I see. Yeah.

Ajá.

Okay. That makes sense. And, also, is there cases where, like, the client doesn't like the what the designer made? Like, what what typically happens in that case? Okay.

I think that hop happens pretty often at, like, the first meeting. Usually, it's not constructive for anyone to hear that, like, they just don't like it in general. And I think, like,

Yeah.

a designer who's has experience will usually ask, okay. Well, if you don't like the main design, like, what about it is it that you don't like? And, like, basically, the meetings are built for the fact that it's, like, if they don't like something,

Yeah.

then it's to work out why they don't like it and, like, what they do like. So it's fine usually if they don't really like it. And that's also why you have I feel like if you wanna set, like, a minimum amount of meetings paid for, it should be too. Because the first meeting will be there to hash out what you don't like, and the second meeting will be there to hash out, like, if you still don't like it or if there's things to improve on

Bien.

And usually after two rounds of communication, it should be fine.

Interesting. And these are two rounds of feedback, like, after they're done with the design. How many rounds of, like, I guess, like, meetings before they did the design? There typically?

No. These are during the design. So what will happen is, like,

Or during design?

at the first round, what usually people will have I think, like, in terms of, like, since you're being a middle you could also talk to the designers and be like, okay. By the time you have the first meeting, you need to have x y z. And if it's like that, then I think you should probably have, like, two to three directions, which means two to three different mood boards. Or, like, in the case of web design, like, two to three different sets of, like, examples or things similar, and you should have, like, some basic prototype. So maybe, like, one page

Okay.

of what the website is going to look like. Yeah. But that's, like, in the case of two meetings. You've paid for, like, more meetings, can definitely have, like, more rounds of, like basically, it just gets more granular.

Yeah.

You pay more, it gets you you have more decision. Right?

Yeah.

In terms of design system, what usually happens at the first meeting is people will have, like like, a presentation and then

Mhmm.

first page will be, like, five to 10 different typefaces. And then like, the second page will be, like, options of color schemes. And then the third page will be, like, logo sketches, so on and so forth. And then you kind of, like, pick and choose. Or they'll, like, already curate them into sets for you, and you choose, like, a set.

Okay.

So that's how it works.

Interesting.

Mhmm.

And okay. Also for like, if you break down these four, you said you we only need two designers.

Mhmm.

Like, which how what would the two designers be doing? Like, how would you allocate the two designers to the tasks?

Let's say two to four. The reason why I say two is because if you have two designers are that are very comfortable with web and have also done branding, they can figure out everything between them. So it's not necessarily, like, person a works on task one two, and person b works on three four. It's like they work on, like, two and three and one and two four together.

Okay.

And they'll kind of, like, just this like, I think if you involve multiple designers, you need to,

Я.

have them on a team. Like, they need to be working on a team on their side and not, like, by themselves because they need to work out something together too. I think the reason why I don't think for designers well, for designers could be good in terms of the work could be done very quick. But negotiation could be very painful, because

Yep. Yep.

it's, like, one person talking to four people who all have different opinions. What usually happens in that case is, like, if you if you have good structure, which, like, low key, I think that if you're putting together teams part of, like, what you might need to be doing is, like, setting, like, a teamwork framework, if that makes sense. What I found in the past is that people work more efficiently if all the small things are, like, just left to each person, and they come back within themselves to discuss it. So, like, say, for example, if you're making, like, an identity, it's not like four people are all trying to choose the typefaces. It's one person chooses the typefaces. One goes to look at the color. One goes to look at the so on and so forth. If it's like that and they like each other, they actually work well. It should get done very fast. But that usually rarely happens because

Yeah.

projects don't work well on large teams, which is why I'm, two designers might be better because if they're comfortable with what they're doing, they'll

Interesting. And do you think, like,

it's less people to discuss with. Yeah.

I guess, like, if let let let's just say this company wants to do all four of these

Mhmm.

tasks. Like, how would I, I guess, like, give it to you? Like, it would just be one huge bundle, and I'll be like, oh, like, we need, like, two plus people to work on this or something. Or would I, like,

Ya.

okay. Okay. It'll just be one big example for each company Is that the the best format?

Well, what do you want in that bundle?

I guess, like, I guess, like, just these four tasks to be done. Like, the other the way I was thinking beforehand was, like, assigning one designer for each bullet point, but then, like, you said that, like, that's probably not a good idea. Right?

Ajá.

So I was thinking just for every company that we have, it will just be one bundle of, like, all the tasks that they want done. And then I guess, like, somebody could decide how many designers are needed. Like, how would I kinda figure that out?

I think you'll have, like, a bundle of tasks The thing with the advantage to having more designers is that the speed at which you work is

Mhmm.

faster. So I think for the client side, what they're really choosing between is, like, do you want to pay less, or do you want some like, a faster rate of work? Because, like, when you're also paying for, like, four people, that's obviously more money than two people.

Ja,

Right? Three people could not low key, three people might work the best in terms of, like,

Mhmm.

given the fact that a lot of students don't have experience. I know, like, right now, the trend is to, like, work in, like, kind of, like, a flat hierarchy. But I do think that if it's more than two people, someone needs to take a bit more responsibility and actually make decisions.

Yeah.

So that's something that like, you might want to say, like, you need to delegate like, some kind of, like, a project lead. Is what we call them.

Okay.

I think just, like, giving the bundle of, like, things they want. Yeah. Like, how many I think for design system, it would be good if the bundle could list, like, how many different components of a design system they want. And then for the web, it'd be like like a short description. Like, maybe, like, a short paragraph description of what they want that website to do and, like,

Giga.

the same thing for, like, iMessage. And, like, usually, what always happens is if people people can come to you before they have the content of whatever they want to put on the website, but it's also very helpful if, like, they can provide, like, actual copywriting or actual, like, things. Like, maybe in the bundle, there's, like, kind of, like, a pack of assets to use that they already have.

Okay.

Mhmm.

And wait. So

Yep.

each bundle is one bullet point, or is each bundle, like, all four tasks?

I think each bundle is, like, the actual don't know. The way I you just told it to me and the way that, like, I guess, I I thought about it was, like, if one bundle was, like, one job. So maybe not necessarily all four bullet points, but however many bullet points the company wanted.

Okay. So these would be like, I guess, each one of these bullet points or each one of these tasks would be assigned to a different set of designers. Is that, like, a better way to do it?

So sorry, did you mean, like, one one bundle and then, like, a different team for each bullet point?

Yeah. Or would like, all four of these tasks being assigned to a set of designers be the better way to do it?

I think all four being assigned to a set of designers because again,

So

the more people you have involved, the more confusing and the more internal, like, kind of bureaucracy will be made.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Okay.

Yeah. Mhmm.

And, also, on your end, like, do you evaluate, like, designers? Because I know you said that, like, some designers are, like, guess, younger. They might not have more experience.

Mhmm.

Like, do you evaluate designers before they take on tasks? Or

In

Oh,

In the design guild, we're highly selective. So what that means is, like, we have two sophomores a year

Yeah.

from the whole entire school. Have, like you can low key like, the way I did describe it to, like, my friends is it's kind of like a business thread for this time, which is really bad.

Okay. Yeah.

We don't haze people. But, basically, there's, like, a level of quality that's ensured when you go into design guild.

Mhmm.

In terms of, like, your pure taste, which it sounds like these companies want more than, like, vertical, I guess, technical proficiency. But, like, other than that, in terms of school, I can see people's work but I I won't like people don't come to me and say, like, oh, judge my portfolio.

Yeah.

Well, sometimes they do for design guild, but, like, that's not a thing that usually happens because it gets kinda weird.

Ya.

Have personal opinions, of course, about who's good and bad, but yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I see. Okay. Cool. I think that's all my questions. Yeah. If if you can send me, like, the what was it called? Like, the the spreadsheet or, like, the Google doc of how other clients would send it over, that'll be perfect. But

Cool.

yeah. Is there anything any questions for me?

I don't know. I'm I'm just, I'm pretty interested in what you're doing. So it's, like,

Yeah.

yeah. I just I'm interested to see where all go. And, like, if you need me to help, like, work, I could help you, like, kind of work on this too.

Yeah. That's all. Great.

But otherwise, like, I know. You could just, like, just keep me updated on what's going on. And, of course, I could also, like, do work

Yeah.

Yeah.

Acá está, I think like, I guess from our end, we're having like, the similar problem with other companies. Because, like, we we're all tech people. We don't really have, like, the taste. So we probably need to, like, talk to you about, like and also because you know how, like, how to get people to do tasks, I might have to, like, reach out back to you to, like, ask some questions about, like, how it should be allocated, and it obviously will compensate you. For anything that you do. So

Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. I'm also happy to just, like,

okay.

design consult on anything. But yeah.

That sounds great.

Alright. Cool. So I'll just send you stuff.

Yeah. If you can send me, like, how they format it, that'd be great.

Mhmm.

And probably, like, have some design tasks. And like, obviously, like you and or, like, the design go can take it on. And yeah, I think we'll we'll go from there.

Mhmm. Okay. Cool. I have to tell you what the design build sometimes tasks do not get picked Like, sometimes people don't feel comfortable working. So you might need a plan b or

Okay.

like, I know people, but, yeah, just a heads up.

Like, is the bottleneck money, or what's the what, like, what doesn't usually get picked up?

The bottleneck is usually either, like, the job itself, or, like it's never money usually. It's just, if people think they can do a job or, like, if they think the job is, like, worth their time is usually the bottleneck.

Okay. Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, if you say iMessage mini game design, I don't know how many people at RISD would be very like, comfortable with the idea of them building a whole entire mini

Yeah.

game that's actually like, kind of professional level without, like, a developer. Or, like I guess, like, there you would need to say that I already have a developer or, like, already have, like, a front end or something.

Okay. Yeah. I think I'm I mean, I obviously need to talk

Mhmm.

to them, but my understanding of what that is is probably, like,

Okay.

just the assets. But I'll definitely, like, talk to them. So

Yeah.

cool.

Sounds good. Mhmm. Cool.

Yeah. Awesome. Is there anything else?

Yep. Yep. Not really.

Okay.

I don't know. Is there anything you have from my side still?

Not really. I think it's just, like, figuring out how to format it properly so that the designer is, like, can take on the task and

I mean, in in that case, if you want, I could also, like,

yeah,

you could I could help you kind of format things. I don't because also, like, without knowing what these people, like, want from you, I know how to help you. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

If if you're comfortable with it, like, you could send me what they want. I could help you format it because I have experience. Like,

Yeah. That'd be great.

not, like, telling people what to do, but yeah.

Yeah. I I know you're the manager of the guild, so that'll be that's perfect.

Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds great. Awesome. Thank you so much. Sorry. Going a little bit over

Cool. Okay, dann Nein, nein, nein.

overtime, but yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Nice meeting you.

See you.

Alright. Yep.